First experience with locked brakes in the rain...

Riding on 270 in the fast lane to work this AM... raining, drivers being over-cautious, brake lights and I reacted. I applied both my brakes and was fine for a second or two, then the rear brakes locked up. I started to skid quickly towards the car in front of me. Not sure how or why (no time to think, just react), I started to skid/drift toward the shoulder, past the car in front and then past 2 or 3 more cars until finally I slowed down. My pulse wasn't racing, my adrenaline wasn't pumping... I quickly turned the engine off, planted my feet and did a quick once-over... counted my fingers and toes and same for bike. Started her up and bike was okay, I was okay. Luckily there was a nice driver who let me sneak in front so I could get back on...

Made to work in once piece. You know, I always wondered why there were so many people who loved the idea of ABS on motorcycles... Put me in the "Now I know" category.

Ride safe everyone. Gonna be a very rainy season.

This exact situation happened to me also. Still then I never use the rear brake except in gravel/dirt. I focus on maximizing the front brake instead.

The front tire has more grip than you might think, even in the wet, although that can change quickly if you ride over wet leaves or other similar extra slippery surfaces.

Also, you'd be well advised to leave a lot more space in front of you in the wet, just in case.

Just be glad it was your rear brake that was locked up and not your front.

In any case, you should practice emergency stopping in the rain.

ABS is for pansies!!!

Glad to hear you got all your fingers and toes... And that your bike has all it's tires?

Should consider moving to ARIZONA... It rains twice a year... And, you can ride all year long...

Luis

i locked up my front in the rain, and the front end went out from under me before I could blink. Can someone remind me why it's better to use the front then the rear?? Since that incident, I always use my rear brake and the use the front after I know there is no risk of me losing the front end. I would rather fish tail then low slide. JMO

where are you located?

I was surprised at how easy it was to lock up the rear in the rain, yesterday. I only felt it wiggle around back there for a few feet at very slow speed, but after that, I kept imagining the rear was moving around.

i locked up my front in the rain, and the front end went out from under me before I could blink. Can someone remind me why it's better to use the front then the rear?? Since that incident, I always use my rear brake and the use the front after I know there is no risk of me losing the front end. I would rather fish tail then low slide. JMO

Because if you practice not locking up your front end, you'll stop much, much sooner. Usually when you hit the brakes you do it in order to stop, not to slide, right? I need to practice more, because I'd rather stop than fishtail OR lowside.

It's really just physics. When you hit either brake, weight transfers forward onto your front end. Depending on how hard you're braking and how much weight has transferred, your front tire has a significantly higher amount of traction than your rear tire does. Because of this, you can stop a LOT faster with just your front brake than you can with just your rear brake. It also means that it's easier to lock up your rear under heavy braking than it is to lock up your front.

Practice ;D

thank.. I guess i gotta get out there in a parking lot on a rainy day. It's just something truly undesirable to practice when you have just the one bike.

No problem. I just wish I was able to better practice what I preach, haha. And the thing about the one bike is a good point. The best way to do this is to start off slow and remember to NEVER grab the brakes fast. You have to slowly (not snail slow, just be really smooth) squeeze the brakes so that the weight transfers forward before you are on the brakes hard. Start off easy and gradually increase brake pressure until you're stopping fast. Baby steps :)

When the winter comes around, practice locking up your rear brake on teh cold ground. You don't waste a lot of tire and you learn how much pressure it takes to lock the sucker.

That's what I do :)

Plus it's a lot of fun to come to a stop at a light a little sideways. :)

I've chattered the front tire under braking in standing water type downpoors. I always use the rear, and increase to about 40% rear brakes in the rain. U get maximum braking by using both. Helps to always brake with both no matter the conditions to b in the habit of it. The real trick as said before is to not jam on either, but to quickly increase braking pressure once the intitial bite of the brakes has been applied. If ur smooth enough, u'll feel when the tire is begining to give up traction

U get maximum braking by using both.
Not if the rear is in the air. ;D

I find engine braking is sufficient to break traction on the rear under heaving braking with the front. Plus, not using the rear brake simplifies corner entry.

The only time I use the rear brake is when I'm not on the pavement.

Cruisers and Goldwings will benefit much more from rear brake use than your typical sportbike due to the weight distribution, though.

Not if the rear is in the air. ;D

I find engine braking is sufficient to break traction on the rear under heaving braking with the front. Plus, not using the rear brake simplifies corner entry.

The only time I use the rear brake is when I'm not on the pavement.

Cruisers and Goldwings will benefit much more from rear brake use than your typical sportbike due to the weight distribution, though.

Or locked up :thumbsup:

That's why u practice, so u don't put it in the air or slide it. Even on a sportbike u will stop faster using both brakes and the motor by rev matching. There is an article I read in sportbike rider doing comparisons of front, rear, and both brakes being tested back to back on a 600 of some sort it I remember right. I'm usin my blackberry for this, and will not b finding a link for that article. Can't say I haven't slid the rear or locked it under down shifting, but the other 98% of the time I get it right. Wonder what a fancy slipper clutch is like. I've also slid the front in the rain on down hill S curves riding spirited, and recovered. If u r very smooth with all imputs to the bike u can find the limits with practice

^^ Read that article.

The logic is simple folks.

70% front, 30% rear.

Gee, wouldn't braking with 100% of your stopping power be more efficient than braking with 70% of your power?

If it's simple, why do people disagree on this point?

If you are maximizing your front braking, your rear brake should provide little/no stopping power, not 30%. In an emergency, I would much rather focus on maximizing the front braking than distract myself trying to keep the rear from locking.


^^ Read that article.

The logic is simple folks.

70% front, 30% rear.

Gee, wouldn't braking with 100% of your stopping power be more efficient than braking with 70% of your power?

If it's simple, why do people disagree on this point?

If you are maximizing your front braking, your rear brake should provide little/no stopping power, not 30%. In an emergency, I would much rather focus on maximizing the front braking than distract myself trying to keep the rear from locking.
That's really poor logic. Unless your rear wheel is off the ground (in which case, you're braking way too hard in front), it's certainly providing some braking force.

And with practice it becomes second nature like parts of riding that u used to have to really work hard to accomplish when say u were a new rider. If ur doin a stoppie, ur on the front brakes too hard as the front is now balencing the entire bike, and in no way is exserting maximum braking. Even if the rear is only slightly off the ground. Yes the rear will lighten up as weight is transfered to the front, but the rear should still b in contact with the road, and have some weight on it to accomplish even more braking than the front alone

If it's simple, why do people disagree on this point?

If you are maximizing your front braking, your rear brake should provide little/no stopping power, not 30%. In an emergency, I would much rather focus on maximizing the front braking than distract myself trying to keep the rear from locking.

"This and other results of research and testing conducted by the Promocycle Foundation of Quebec were presented at the International Motorcycle Safety Conference in March. They made more than 800 measured stops on instrumented motorcycles. Here are some of the highlights of Promocycle's findings and advice on how to perform the most effective emergency stops.

The rear brake is important: Even if you ride a sportbike that transfers most of its weight to the front wheel, during that first half-second or so, while the rear wheel is still weighted, any braking you perform will have the greatest effect, since you are moving faster than when the weight has been transferred. Most riders can begin to apply the rear brake slightly sooner and harder than the front. Of course, on a cruiser, the rear wheel continues to carry substantial weight and the rear brake continues to be effective right through the stop. Finally, the rear brake also applies some stabilizing effect, so the back wheel won't try to pass the front. One of the test riders was in the habit of not using the rear brake, but even his braking improved noticeably when he was instructed to use it.

Which is your more important brake? We hope that everyone knows that the front brake provides most of your motorcycle's stopping power. Testers using both brakes on conventional braking systems made stops with a mean deceleration of .776 G. With just the front brake, that dropped to .711 G. But if they used only the rear brake, their stops developed a mere .425 G. That even applied to bikes with linked braking systems (LBS), which typically apply both brakes when the foot pedal is pressed. Using the pedal only developed .583 G, but using both controls brought braking force to .74 G. However, using just the front brake control on an LBS bike made only .44 G. So no matter what you ride, you should apply both brakes using both controls."

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/0608_crup_effective_braking/index.html

MSF teaches to use both for a reason.

Agreed. I have learned after many a skid to apply the rear, and gradualy ease up on the the lever as the weight transfers to the front. I had read about the technique before I'd ever attempted it, but it took a while to become used to using it. Especially when panic sets in during emergancey braking. Now I don't even think about it, and do it on all stops. It's very counter intuitive, as are many things about riding.

And with practice it becomes second nature like parts of riding that u used to have to really work hard to accomplish when say u were a new rider. If ur doin a stoppie, ur on the front brakes too hard as the front is now balencing the entire bike, and in no way is exserting maximum braking. Even if the rear is only slightly off the ground. Yes the rear will lighten up as weight is transfered to the front, but the rear should still b in contact with the road, and have some weight on it to accomplish even more braking than the front alone

Actually I'm pretty sure that you are using the front brake to its full potential with your rear tire just barely hovering over the ground. The front tire is providing so much traction that it's becoming a pivot point for the combined weight of you and the bike...

Here's another quote from Wally's article:
For best results: Basically, there are two major components of a typical hard, short stop: quick and effective initial braking and then modulating pressure as the bike's weight shifts and speed decreases. The researchers offer this sequence: 1) Close the throttle and apply the rear brake; 2) Straighten the motorcycle and adjust your posture and hand position; 3) Apply the front brake and declutch; 4) Adjust brake pressure. The initial weight transfer takes about .6 second, and the whole stop from 60 mph requires about 3 seconds from initial brake application.

I KNOW I'm not skilled enough to do all of that in an emergency situation. I'll accept the difference between .776G and .711G if it means not having to check things off that list as I'm headed for a deer. I agree that the rear brake is important, but I don't feel that it adds enough to make it worth my precious few synapses :p

Agreed, badguy.

A rider, especially an inexperienced one, is more likely to lock the rear brake than really make effective use of it. See the OP for a good example.

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

I'm in Maryland, Frederick.

You know you're becoming addicted when life starts to revolve around your addiction. It's been almost a year since I started riding and it's been great. I have definitely though about other places I could move to that has no winter and more dry riding weather.
I really don't mind the rain, but more back roads would be great!!

Did you try to release the rear and reapply it?

I lost the rear in the rain lots of times, and the rear end of the bike can do weird things. One time it pulled me to the left, then changed its mind and pulled me to the right. But this was at slow speeds, coming up to a red light.

I also locked the rear when my engine stalled out downshifting into a downhill bridge exit. I gathered somewhat quickly by the red oil light on the dash that the engine was off, so pulled the clutch in and the rerar grabbed again, just in time as I was about 3 feet from outside barriers.

So try getting off the brake and reapplying.

Did you try to release the rear and reapply it?

I lost the rear in the rain lots of times, and the rear end of the bike can do weird things. One time it pulled me to the left, then changed its mind and pulled me to the right. But this was at slow speeds, coming up to a red light.

I also locked the rear when my engine stalled out downshifting into a downhill bridge exit. I gathered somewhat quickly by the red oil light on the dash that the engine was off, so pulled the clutch in and the rerar grabbed again, just in time as I was about 3 feet from outside barriers.

So try getting off the brake and reapplying.
--

I just reacted. The car in front was nearly stopped (IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HWY!!). I slowed down first then a slip second later, when I realized the car was stopped, my body reacted and I squoze?? harder. It all happened lickity-split so I didn't have much time to put in all the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 steps the other poster advised.

Live and learn. Fortunately, my instinct took over and it guided me over to the shoulder...

It's the first time I'm riding in the rain so I'm learning :D Other than the other people on the road, I really enjoy riding in the rain.

You know you're becoming addicted when life starts to revolve around your addiction. It's been almost a year since I started riding and it's been great. I have definitely though about other places I could move to that has no winter and more dry riding weather.
I really don't mind the rain, but more back roads would be great!!

You're in Frederick and there aren't enough back roads? There are a bunch of people on DCSportbikes (.com and .net) from that area and ride there a lot. I don't know most of the roads but I've been on a good bit of them. Maybe post up on one of those sites asking if anyone wants to lead a noob ride so you can learn the roads. I think you'll be happy with what you find. ...unless you're hoping for California canyon roads, haha.

Did you try to release the rear and reapply it?

I lost the rear in the rain lots of times, and the rear end of the bike can do weird things. One time it pulled me to the left, then changed its mind and pulled me to the right. But this was at slow speeds, coming up to a red light.

I also locked the rear when my engine stalled out downshifting into a downhill bridge exit. I gathered somewhat quickly by the red oil light on the dash that the engine was off, so pulled the clutch in and the rerar grabbed again, just in time as I was about 3 feet from outside barriers.

So try getting off the brake and reapplying.

I'm not sure this is the best advice the way it's written. Like you said, the rear end can do some weird things. If the rear wheel is locked, pulls to the side and then grabs again, that's the recipe for a highside. The safest time to release the rear brake once it's locked is if the bike is still tracking straight. Otherwise, you're just asking for a trip to the moon (http://motovation.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/jorge_lorenzo_highside.jpg).

I don't profess to be any kind of expert, so maybe you're more experienced and can prove me wrong. I'm just going on what I've heard/read and what makes sense to me. Unfortunately, it's more instinct than anything else to release the brake once you realize it's locked up...hopefully the rear isn't stepped far enough out to cause any problems.

This is yet another good reason to start on or spend a lot of time riding dirt bikes, you learn tons of rear break control.

In the dry, I almost exclusively use my front brake to stop and I am always applying more and more break to see where my limits are in all conditions. Having gsxr radial set up sure does help with feel.

As soon as there is gravel, leaves, water, or anything else on the road, I modulate the rear brake while on the front to keep the bike settled. Thanks to a life of dirtbiking I don't even think to do it, it just happens.

In a few panic stops I had to make while riding I believe I was on my rears to the locking point/unlocking point. My concentration is always on the front brake, but in panic I seem to always be able to cover/control the rear brake to. I usually lift as soon as I feel the rear tire lock right before it starts to behave bad, and then re-apply less brake.

[QUOTE=badguy;1741479]You're in Frederick and there aren't enough back roads? There are a bunch of people on DCSportbikes (.com and .net) from that area and ride there a lot. I don't know most of the roads but I've been on a good bit of them. Maybe post up on one of those sites asking if anyone wants to lead a noob ride so you can learn the roads. I think you'll be happy with what you find. ...unless you're hoping for California canyon roads, haha.

Did find a site that had ppl's posted routes on http://www.motorcycleroads.com/routes/NorthEast/MD/MD_index.htm
Some nice rides listed.